S8E11 : Beyond 515 : Ray Zahab | Explorer and Ultramarathoner

Ray Zahab didn’t grow up as the unstoppable endurance athlete people imagine when they hear “ultramarathoner” and “explorer.” He describes starting over around age 30, quitting a pack-a-day smoking habit, and following his younger brother into the outdoors until movement turned into purpose. That path eventually leads to one of the most jaw-dropping feats in endurance sports: running the length of the Sahara Desert, roughly 7,500 kilometers, day after day for 111 days.

We get into what actually makes extreme endurance possible when the novelty wears off. Ray explains why removing expectations can unlock performance, how preparation and process beat bravado, and why he’s careful about choosing expedition teammates who can leave ego at the door. He also shares how the “chosen hardship” of races and expeditions helped him face something he didn’t choose at all: a rare blood cancer diagnosis and months of chemotherapy, approached with the same step-by-step resilience he learned outdoors.

The episode goes deep on logistics and safety, from cutting pack weight for a self-contained Atacama Desert crossing to building a polar bear perimeter alarm system on Arctic sea ice. You’ll hear what it means to respect the environment, when to turn around even after huge effort, and how Ray’s nonprofit impossible2Possible brings free, education-driven expeditions to youth ages 16 to 21 around the world.

If you’re into ultrarunning, adventure racing, expedition planning, mental toughness, or simply changing your life through movement, this conversation will stick with you. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a nudge toward something hard, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Ray’s contact points:

Website: rayzahab.com  //  facebook.com/rayzahab. //. twitter.com/rayzahab

instagram.com/rayzahab. //  www.youtube.com/@rayzahab1944

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Running for My Life (book)
• Running to Extremes (book)
• impossible 2 Possible
• Vancouver International Outdoor Film Festival
• Ironman Canada 
• Trans 333
• KapiK1 Expedition Company.
• Moab 240

Shout outs and mentions in this episode:

• Ferg Hawke (S3E10)
• Jen Segger
• Kathy Adams
• Charlie Engle
• Kevin Vallely
• Stefano Gregoretti
• Bob Cox

Transcript

Ray Zahab And Big Feats

Larry 0:29

Today on the show and introducing the second death of the 2015 the Harry Desert is staggering 7,500 kilometers. So he basically crushed the 515 day three every day for 111 consecutive days. Today's guest is an explorer and ultramarathoner. He first gained international recognition after running the entire length of the Sahara Desert, more than 7,500 kilometers, in just over 100 days. Since then, he's completed expeditions across some of the most extreme environments on Earth, including speed record journeys to the South Pole, winter crossings of Siberia's Lake Baikal, solo runs through the Altacama Desert, and multiple Arctic expeditions pulling sleds across sea ice. If you're a longtime listener to the podcast, then you would have heard Ferg Hawk talk about that. And if that wasn't enough, he's an author of Running for My Life and Running to Extremes. As well as the co-founder of the educational initiative Impossible to Possible, which connects students around the world to his real-time expeditions. Joining me today from his home in Chelsea, Quebec, welcome to the podcast, Ray Zahab. Thank you so much, Larry. Great to be here. Yeah, thanks for joining us. Um traditionally, this podcast has always been for the 515 triathlon community. But this season we're stretching it out to Ultra uh as a larger community, and you were definitely one of the guests I wanted to get in when we started to go with that that stream as well. So so thank you for coming and sharing some of these stories with us.

Ray Zahab 2:16

Well, thank you so much for inviting me. And that you answered my first question. Why 515? Like, what's the 515? And then once you said it, I remember because I've listened to the podcast in the past, but it's been a long time. And so, yeah, it's great. It's great to be here. Yeah, thank you. It's a crazy distance for like a triathlon.

unknown 2:32

Okay.

Ray Zahab 2:33

I just I can't wrap my head around that, you know. Like especially okay, the bike. I I maybe I maybe I think I can kind of get it. Like the run. Well, all right, let it, but the swim.

unknown 2:44

Yeah.

Ray Zahab 2:45

I mean, 10 kilometers of swimming.

Larry 2:49

Yeah.

unknown 2:50

Yeah.

Ray Zahab 2:50

That's crazy. Anyhow. Whatever you guys are amazing. Yeah.

Larry 2:55

Well, you you know a couple of these people. Like I said, uh, you you've you've met Ferg Hawk and also Jen Sager. She was in Canada.

Ray Zahab 3:02

And Jen are very good friends of mine, yes.

Larry 3:05

So and so you're part of the family.

Ray Zahab 3:07

Yeah.

Larry 3:10

Uh well, just to get us uh placed a little bit for for the people around the world, um, you're in a suburb of Canada's capital uh of Ottawa, right?

Ray Zahab 3:20

So I know I live in Chelsea, Quebec, Canada. So I'm across the the Ottawa River from um from Ottawa. You can see Ottawa from some of our hills up here and King Mountain. You could see, you could see uh across to Ottawa quite easily. Uh, but I live in a place that's it's like mecca for Nordic skiing. So at this time of year, the trails here are phenomenal if that's if that's your jam. So um, and then of course, summer, it's trail running and mountain biking and and flat water, uh, canoe kayak, there's some white water, there's a little bit of everything here. It really is a really cool outdoor spot. And I get out west quite a bit too. And so I was just in Vancouver, like literally uh a week, uh, a week ago at the Vancouver International Mountain Film Festival giving a presentation. And um, so I'm I and I have friends there, and so I'm there a lot, but uh this is it, it's the other, it's the other end of the outdoor world, you know, in Canada if you want, it's the other coast. Well, we're not really a coast, but you know what I mean.

Larry 4:22

Yeah, yeah, you're on you're on the far side. You're over there where the new Iron Man Canada is.

Ray Zahab 4:27

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. They

From Farm Kid To Smoker

Ray Zahab 4:30

had a last year for the first time, I think. Right? That's correct. Yeah, yeah, cool.

Larry 4:33

Yeah. Well, um, I want to give uh the listener a little bit of background before we get into some of these epic adventures of yours. I I don't think a lot of young children aspire to be lifelong endurance athletes, at least not prior to your influence. Uh, what was your life like before doing these things? What kind of activities, sports were you into, and and what was the turning point that kind of pulled you toward ultra?

Ray Zahab 4:59

Yeah, it's a great question. So I um it's a bit of a long and winding story. I um started doing this kind of stuff I'm doing, like getting into the outdoors and and um you know, do you know, doing the things we love to do. I started doing all this around the age of 30. Uh prior to that, I mean, I really wasn't an athlete of any kind. I I um was in fact a packaday smoker until I was 30, until I changed my life. And so, you know, I I grew up in my early years, I grew up, my brother and I have a younger brother. He's the one that got me into doing all this stuff. Um, he's in he's a done Iron Man triathlon, he's um an avid climber, runner, mountain biker, paddler, you know, swimmer, does all the stuff. And so he got me into uh, you know, doing the things I do now. But I digress. So we grew up on a farm and you know, we grew up outside essentially. I mean, this is, you know, the old days, right? Because I'm not, I'm not a young man. So, you know, there's no social media, there's no, you know, you're not flicking through 100 channels. We had CBC, CTV, and sometimes global, if the things on the TV were catching the signal. So, I mean, you weren't sitting around like there's just there's nothing to do. And so your friends were across a 25-acre hayfield. And if you wanted to see them, you had to cross the hayfield and then go hang out. So, you know, inadvertently and organically, we grew up running around uh as youngsters. Um and then, you know, as I got older and you know, into school and college, and then just, you know, you know, 20s just start passing you by and you're partying all the time. And I just wasn't living in a way that for me was sustainable or fulfilling in any way. I mean, I had friends all around me, my brother included, my younger brother included, who had sort of, you know, were defining who they were and finding things they loved to do and were passionate about stuff. And um, lo and behold, I was just doing the same things I was doing at 16, 18, 20, 22. I mean, nothing was really changing. And so I couldn't really find the exit. And it was my brother who convinced me to try to go out randomly mountain biking with him one day. I mean, I obviously could not ride the bike up a hill because I was, you know, back and a smoker, as I'd mentioned. But in being so inspired by this guy, my brother, I found within him a passion and a love for the stuff he was doing, you know, the rock climbing and ice climbing, especially. He he just loved that stuff. And so I was like, wow, you know, and he's so fit and he just loves this stuff. Maybe if I did the things he does, my life would be different. And that's literally how it started. So you and I wouldn't even be having this conversation today if it wasn't for my brother, who would become my greatest inspiration, is what I tell people. It's the truth. And, you know, when I started doing those things and discovering those things, and then I, you know, I wanted to get fitter and healthier and stronger. And of course, everything else had to be left behind, right? The the partying for the most part, the smoking 100% had to be left behind. All these things had to go into the rearview mirror in order to be able to do the things that I was becoming passionate about. And to jump to the question next that I bet you're gonna ask, like when, you know, the starting of the running, I didn't really start running until a few years after I quit smoking. I I became a passionate mountain biker, um, loved uh riding and racing my mountain bike. And I was racing my bike at one point, I was doing races internationally and loving it. And it became something that I was good at. I really loved it. And I was discovering inside me a person who for 30 years I'd never known, right? But here's this person who all of a sudden, when you when you start putting broccoli instead of Jack Daniels into your body and you're not smoking a pack of cigarettes today, instead you're riding your bike. All of a sudden I found I had the same engine uh for endurance that my brother, that my brother has. So, you know, one thing led to another. I wasn't into trail running at all or running of any kind. I, you know, I ran a handful of times in preparation for adventure races, which was another thing I became passionate about. And then I read an article about ultramarathons and was mesmerized by the fact that these people could go out and do these long, arduous runs, and thought that it's something my brother might like because he was an avid marathon runner. And um, I ended up being the one that enters this ultra marathon in the Yukon, and I ended up winning it. And this was 2004, winter 2004. And I thought, well, maybe this is what I should be doing with the rest of my life. And uh to summarize, that journey from 2004 to 2006, when we started the Running the Sahara expedition, which was my first expedition. I've done 45 expeditions over the years now. Um, that few years I did ultra marathons literally all over the world because I didn't know how I did what I did in the Yukon. And it made sense to me that if I went and did other ultra marathons, maybe I could figure out how I could push my body that way or feel so incredible because I knew it wasn't something unique to me. That that in every human being is this capacity to do something extraordinary in our lives or feel incredible or overcome

The Brother Who Changed Everything

Ray Zahab 10:40

mental, physical, and emotional barriers. And so I just wanted to know how to do that in everyday life, not just in ultra marathons. And so I did a bunch of ultra marathons, met the guys that I would run across the Sahara with, and you know, I'm sure you'll ask questions about that.

Larry 10:55

Yeah. And so it it takes you into a place that, first of all, you didn't realize existed, didn't know that you could get to. But when you when you start doing it in those first couple of ultramarathons and stuff, what what is it that that clicked for you that said, yes, this is what I should be doing?

Ray Zahab 11:16

Well, the first ultra marathon was the first thing I'd ever won. Like, I mean, I I couldn't believe I like I was living like imposter syndrome for days after that Euchonarctic Ultra, because I thought I must have took a wrong turn, or you know, there's no way I'm not the guy that should be winning something like that. And then what I realized is like, well, wait a second. I mean, you know, so in pursuit of trying to figure out how I was able to do what I did, I started doing these other ultra marathons. Uh you know, I did marathon de Sab a few times. I did, you know, the Libyan Challenge, a race in Libya in the desert. I did I, you know, a bunch of different ones. And it was in every as as time went on over those few years, I I was traveling a lot. And I was I was making it happen. I had no money. I was spending every penny that I made on doing these races. And it was it was crazy times. I mean, it was just crazy times. And but I was at a point in my life where I had no expectations with with myself, right? Like I'm now mid-30s, and it's like I'm starting over completely from scratch. I'm starting my life over. And I was happy with nothing but experiences. You know, I didn't have anything. I, you know, I in those early days, this is before I met my wife. You know, I obviously I wanted to have kids. I've always loved kids. I always wanted to be a dad, and and I knew my brother would be a dad at some point. Uh, so I thought, well, maybe I could be the crazy uncle. I mean, I had other priorities in my life that I wanted. But at the time, in the moment of some of these races, when I was out there experiencing these races, um, and and during that process, meeting my wife, and then, you know, what, you know, the running was teaching me about the world and teaching me about myself. It was running would become my greatest teacher. I've said that in a million presentations I've given before. And then this journey that I was on to discover things about myself led to all these other things, you know, that I would learn about because I was entering ultra marathons around the world. And in that period of time and before running across the Sahara, I met my wife Kathy, who's a runner. And um, you know, then then met Charlie and Kevin. And, you know, off we go across the Sahara Desert to run 7,500 K. So when we got on the start line, like I, you know, in the sand in Senegal to start that expedition, which, you know, it was 111 days, 7,500 kilometers, give or take, um, that was gonna be more time than I'd spent on my feet my entire life. It was some wacky stat I figured out in my brain at that point. And I thought, geez, you know, like I literally thought in my mind when we were standing on the west coast of Africa, I haven't got a hope of finishing this thing. Like, and any any of the times that I've applied that idea where, well, you know, this is gonna go one way or the other. And, you know, like it's just I'm gonna I'll do the best I can, but you know, and and I remove that that stigma of expectation, uh, things go well, you know, that you get into a rhythm.

Larry 14:37

Yeah.

Ray Zahab 14:38

And I can tell you, I can tell you specific times throughout my career, you know, on very risky expeditions like the one Kevin Valilee, another uh, you know, BCI and myself did across Ellesmere Island last winter was one of the most difficult projects I've ever done. And I wrote a long post about our mindset and aging and doing that expedition. And because we had removed that expectation from ourselves and were just in the moment completely in it, yeah, um, it went unbelievably well. Given the conditions we were in. I mean, I just anyhow, I know I'm going all over the map here, but that's another that's a whole other thing you can ask me about.

Larry 15:20

Yeah, I think that's that's definitely kind of the the arc that we want to follow to. Um, but but stepping off from this first adventure with the the Sahara, you said you you know you didn't have a lot of expectation. Were were there things there that now looking back that you were blissfully, hopefully not prepared for or aware of? Like were there things that you just didn't know that you didn't know? And and how did that turn out for you?

Ray Zahab 15:48

Well, I mean, when I went to the Yukon Arctic Ultra, the first race that I'd done, I'd never ran a 5K race or a 10K race or any kind of race. That was my very first running race, period, and it was 100 miles. So I had by that point had a habit of just throwing myself at things and seeing, you know, not overthinking it and just like going for it kind of thing, right? Without any plan or structure. With running the Sahara, we were taking it very seriously, the three of us. And, you know, we trained and prepared and we did a uh, you know, uh one of these stage races together. Um so I think the process of preparation and the size and scope of the project and the fact it was going to be this big fancy documentary film and everything else. Um, you know, that instilled in me, well, you know, well, we we did really prepare for this thing. I mean, it's the first time I've really, really, really, really prepared, you know. And so things are different. But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, well, you know, I started running literally, like seriously running, it's three and a half years ago before the start, right? And you know, seven years ago I'm smoking a pack a day of cigarettes, like, you know, so the there the doubting get it does drop in where you're like, well, what business do I have to be here with these two great runners? But you know, we were a team and great buddies, and so we would support one another through the entire expedition, anyhow, you know.

Larry 17:15

Yeah. And and were you prepared for the the suffering that would be involved in running for 111 days?

Ray Zahab 17:23

Well, there's something I learned in a race in Niger that I did called the Trans-333. It was a 333-kilometer non-stop running race I did previous to the Sahara expedition. And in that race, I remember like the middle of it. Uh it took me 60 hours to do the race, it was through sand dunes and everything. And um look I was completely beat up. It was a billion degrees. I was alone out there in full navigation and on a marked course. You had to navigate. And um I was in the middle of the night and I was walking to these dunes, and I remember kind of feeling sorry for myself, saying, Oh wow, you know, I'm suffering like crazy out here. And what I realized in that moment, looking up at how incredible the stars were, in you know, it's like you could reach in and pull them out of the out of the sky. It was so thick with stars. What I realized was that I chose to be there. I'm the one that, you know, filled out the entry form, right? I'm the one that chose. So is it really suffering or is it something that you've chosen? So I find suffering to be uh like a more of a difficult word because there are other things you'll go through in life where you truly are suffering, right? And so we, you know, as

Winning A First Ultra By Accident

Ray Zahab 18:40

odd and weird as it sounds, like we we like it. You do 515 kilometers of Iron Man because you like it, you know, and then and yeah, okay, it's good, you're gonna get blisters maybe and saddle sores and whatever else. A shark eats you in the water, but you know, you you are you are compelled to do it, and at the price of admission is these things that make it difficult, but the difficulties are something that you've accepted because it's part of the the price of play, right? And so for that reason, it's not so bad. You know what I mean? Yeah, um, in 2023, I was training for an expedition and I was chronically tired all the time and you know, just unable to get myself into the shape that I normally am able to get myself into. And my wife, you know, uh Kathy said, listen, you got you gotta go get checked out of the doctor and all this. So eventually I go to the doctor. We all don't like going to the doctor, but go to the doctor, get blood work done, and um, they find out I've got this super rare form of a blood cancer. So I was gonna have to do six months of chemotherapy. I was gonna have to do um, you know, uh monoclonal therapy. It was gonna be difficult. And so, you know, you're you're up against it. And so this is not something you choose. I didn't choose it. Um, and it was gonna be incredibly challenging, but for different reasons. And there was gonna be some suffering, which was more suffering because I was gonna be sick from the chemo. I was gonna be bloated all the time, feeling like crap, and doing it every 25 days. And um, even in that moment, I thought back to the expeditions I've done and the projects I've done. And I said to myself, you know what? Like, I'm I'm gonna tackle this thing head on in the same way that we learn from these advances. And so every month I would go off and that's where the value comes in. Yeah, I would go off and do something crazy. Like I would get the blessing of my oncologist, and I would, I would, you know, I'd recover from the chemo stuff in me that they would put in, and then I would go and do something. And I think that, you know, because of that perspective, long answer. I know it's a really long answer, but because of that perspective that, you know, we choose to do these things that are very difficult. When this thing came along that I didn't choose, yeah, um, I was better prepared to deal with it. You know what I mean?

Larry 21:12

Yeah.

Ray Zahab 21:12

And I I still don't look back at that whole six-month experience and say, wow, how miserable I was. You know, but but these difficult things that we go through, and I remind people of this, this is just me and my experience. It's relative to us as individuals, the things we go through. So what you go through or I go through, the way we may feel it is completely different. And not one answer is the right one, you know? So it's like figuring out for you what works best uh in dealing with all this stuff, you know? Anyhow.

Larry 21:47

Yeah. Yeah. And and for you, you I guess you were lucky to have found this endurance sport stuff, because maybe if you were still that packaday smoker and and partying. Your body wouldn't have been able to work to fight this off, and your your mind wouldn't have maybe been prepared to do it either.

Ray Zahab 22:07

Yeah, maybe. I mean, for sure. I mean, that's a very real possibility. I guess I'll never know. I do know that there are skills that I took, like individual skills that I took from Expedition that I applied to my treatments and recovery and all that, you know. So, like the body's resilience. Like you've learned that. Like, you know, and these things you do. You know, you're out there for so long and it seems impossible. Like we were talking offline before we came out. I just can't imagine this the sum of it, any of it, actually. And yet you do it, you do it, and you do it more than once. You do it twice, three times. I don't know how many times, but you've done this many times. So it's because you you've gained skills and you apply those individual skills. Anyhow. Yeah.

Larry 22:55

Yeah. So it when you're talking to to young people and students or or older people and you're you're giving your talks, what what's one of the things that you say that Expedition Life has has taught you? What what are some of the the real lessons?

Ray Zahab 23:11

Well, I mean, you know, expeditions have taught me um to never underestimate myself. I mean, that's uh that's a big one. Um they've taught me that you know, if you want to achieve something, there's a process. There's always a process. And I mean, okay, occasionally someone wins the lottery and and that's it, right? But for most things in life, there's a process. And if you want to achieve something great, you have to, you know, for example, you want to run your first 5K race. Well, you've got to lace up the shoes, you gotta start your training program, you do a walk run. Let's say you've never done something like this before. You do the walk-run program, then you get into the running, and then eventually you get to the race and you do the race. But it takes preparation, right? In most cases, um, I've learned that the the more I prepare, the better I apply the lessons from the previous expedition, the greater the chances of success, all things considered equal. I mean, there's environmental stuff that you can't control. I'm talking about the things you can control, you got a better chance of success, right? So that's the the greatest adventure, adventure mimics life in so many ways, and that's one of the one of the main ways.

Larry 24:27

Yeah. So when you are you're planning these out now, you you you come into it with a real, I'm gonna take my lessons from before, I'm gonna plan very carefully. What about when you're planning the people you're doing it with? Um, how do you know that you can trust the people that you're going out with to be prepared as well? And and to um, like I'm sure at times you've got into some dangerous situations and you need to trust them in these extreme environments. Is there something that goes into that?

Ray Zahab 24:58

Well, so you know, over the last 20 years, I've done uh what 40 close to 45. Let's just say 45 expeditions and major adventures, right? Um, half of them have been solo projects, and the other half have been with people, friends, teammates like family, um, people that I've met over the years that I trust. Um, we work well together. There's a lot of criteria. Like, for example, the expedition last winter that I completed skiing from uh Eureka to Greece Fiord overland on Ellesmere Island was 28 days. And we started like right now, like winter on the expedition. We, the other, my teammate was Kevin Valile, who I mentioned before. And the two of us have done projects together over the years, went to the South Pole together, we've crossed Lake Baikal and Siberia together, um, among other projects. And we bring our skill sets together to do something like this Big Elzmere expedition. And we know right away each other's personalities. We know each other so well through the expeditions that we've done that we don't even necessarily need to speak. We can almost

Chosen Hardship And Real Suffering

Ray Zahab 26:20

figure out what the other person is thinking. And there's a comfort level and a trust level. You got your life in one person's hand, the person their life in your hands. And through that relationship, there is this uh sense that you've become one person, right? So you're two people. You become one person. Of course you're gonna have minor disagreements, whatever. It's it's not a thing. But imagine being in a tent at minus 50 for 28 days, and the tent is small. You both stink to high heaven because you've been out there for 28 days and busting your asses, and nothing is easy because everything is so cold. Touching anything, you know, so the slightest tasks require you working together. That little area, that tent that you're in, you gotta really like the person that you're with, or you're gonna kill each other, you know? And so there are people that you have synergy with, and Kevin is one of them. And that's why we were able to achieve that expedition. But I've done major projects with Jen, with Jen Zager, uh, Stefano Gregoretti, my friend from Italy, who I just finished this unsupported west to east, or sorry, not unsupported, self-contained. I say the difference because on we had water support, right? Water drops out there. Um, but um he's from Italy, doesn't speak very much English, you know. But we've been doing projects together. We crossed the Nanib Desert 1,850 kilometers. We did that together. We crossed Kamchaka in Eastern Russia together. We've done all kinds of crazy projects together. But again, we're able to collaborate, work together really well, balance each other really well, laugh together, work hard together, support one another, and read each other's minds, right? And that's what it takes with a really great teammate.

Larry 28:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, like you said, in in these conditions where you're you're tight together, you're gonna have your physical, mental, emotional fatigue happening um that that sets in during these expedition expeditions. Um, have you ever been on one where you've had to like manage some conflict within these survival settings? Like maybe you're on a bigger group or something.

Ray Zahab 28:41

No, no, and no, and and you know what? I mean, I thought we haven't talked about it yet, but so I do expeditions professionally. That's what I do. Like I'm an explorer, that's my job. And then um I have my foundation, Impossible to Possible, where we take young people, 16 to 21 years of age, on expeditions around the world. Those expeditions are 100% free of charge, nobody gets charged, and we're all volunteers in the organization. And then I have a guiding company called Capic One, where I take groups of adults, people like you and I and others, and we spend a week or two, week and a half on an expedition somewhere in the world. Um, and those expeditions, of course, people are paying. It's like, you know, we're we're guiding, and then a percentage of the proceeds go back to support the youth expeditions and yada, yada, yada. Eat on any of these.

Larry 29:35

Yeah.

Ray Zahab 29:35

The answer is no, because, you know, for example, with a Capac One expedition, people will reach out. We don't advertise a ton and people reach out. We build the group, we talk to the people that want to come on the trips, and we bring great people together. Because you're out there, you're spending money to go to a place, you want to have fun. You want to challenge yourself, but you want to have fun also. And you want to get along with people and we keep the group small, right? So, over the years, um, you know, with Impossible to Possible, we've done close to 20 youth expeditions. Yeah, okay, young people occasionally are not gonna get along really well. But man having to is something so big as it needs to be managed, no, knock on wood.

Larry 30:13

Okay, yeah. And and that's exactly where I was thinking with that is that if you are taking out other people that maybe aren't your best friends that you trust, like there might have been times where you know some egos get in the way or something, and no, it's a it's a primary, like in choosing teammates for my own expeditions, like it's a primary piece of the puzzle, is there the ego has to be left out of it.

Ray Zahab 30:40

Because it's you can't bring ego into these things. That's how mistakes get made. And then when it comes to client guiding with Capic One, we have phone, I don't want to say interviews, but that's more or less what it is. We're we're assessing as we speak to people which are the right personalities to put together in various groups.

Larry 31:00

Okay. So you're not you're not trying to build it like a reality TV show where you can get as much conflict as possible. You're trying to do the opposite and nice about.

Ray Zahab 31:11

Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, we want our lives to be easy, not difficult. Yeah.

Larry 31:15

Yeah. Yeah. Um after all the things that you've accomplished now, are are there still moments when you're setting up an expedition where where you have some doubts about what's going to happen or or how you will do with it?

Ray Zahab 31:29

Yeah, absolutely. Every single expedition I plan. Because if you go into it thinking you got this, um you're gonna miss something, you know. So instead, I go in with a tremendous amount of respect for the environment that I'm gonna be in. Um I've been going over when I have these ideas and concepts, I go over my route and go over my route, and I've been going over it for maybe a year. So the planning that goes into one of my expeditions could be very long term, like years of planning. Um, yeah, some of the shorter stuff that I'm doing, like shorter projects, it's months, but you know, the bigger projects are years of planning and logistics and you know, saying, Oh, yeah, you know what? I'm not gonna bring that because it didn't work last time, or I'm gonna do this this time in a different way. And so keeping that open mind to the possibilities that could go wrong, right? Planning those contingencies gives you a better chance of success.

Larry 32:30

And and I was looking at your at your post recently for the your most recent expedition, and I I was marveling at your packing one, the one where you pulled out everything and laid out what you were taking on this trip because it was so little. The amount that for people that are watching or listening, like you got to go back and see how little you were able to take and survive on. Um, I and I assume that comes from this years of experience. Um, tell me a little bit more about that.

Ray Zahab 33:00

Yeah, so years of experience in knowing what we can get away with. And I've done a lot of desert stuff, really hot desert stuff with Stefano. So we both know each other really well. So

Trust, Ego, And Expedition Teammates

Ray Zahab 33:10

the goal was to cross, I've crossed the Atacama Desert. It was one of the most difficult things I ever did, actually. In 2011, I started the furthest point north and I went south 1200 kilometers, minimal resupply solo, middle of summer, very difficult navigation. You know, it was a really difficult desert to cross. Um this is considered one of the driest deserts. It's the driest, driest place on earth. And I crossed literally in Chile, I crossed literally through ground zero of the driest place on earth. Like I was between I was between the Andes and the coastals, like I was like in the valley, in the hottest place as well in the Atacama Desert, like Atacama Desert proper, you know? So between those foothills and the Andes, so you're down right deep into the Atacama Desert. Now, that was 1200 kilometers. It took me roughly, I think it was 19 days to do the expedition. And so it was very difficult. But at the end of it, and again, different times. Um, a lot of the areas that I've gone through or that I went through actually on that 2011 expedition have are now mines. There's mining operations out there and all kinds of stuff. Like it's the landscape has completely changed. So I felt really fortunate to be able to be there in that time and go through some of this desert that was completely pristine because there's no reason for anybody to be out there. You know, there's nothing there. So um, and I saw a lot of really cool stuff out there. But at any rate, this time I said, well, and I've been back to the desert 30 times over the years, different, it's you know, all over Chile. I have a lot of friends in Chile. I said, you know, I want to go west to east across the desert, going up towards the Altiplano, uh, but it's a much shorter distance. It was a couple hundred kilometers, but go in summer again, but this time go completely self-contained. So the only thing that we would need would be water resupplies because there's no the I would have done it unsupported if I knew there was water out there, but there was no water. So, you know, we would have to organize cached water drops from buddies of mine that live there, and we would have that all organized over the course of the, you know, every 15 or 20K worked out to something like that, um, wherever it was feasible to get water to. So, and then so Stefano and I would get our backpacks and leave from the ocean and basically more or less go in a straight line, cross-country as much of it as we possibly could, occasionally hitting these mining roads and gravel tracks, and then finishing on a hard pack uh uh gravel road up through these mountains to the the finish at at um um Santa Rosa in the in the Alta Plana. So in preparing all of our gear and everything, we took like you know, experiences from all of our past trips. And I just recently did a you know self-contained from the furthest point north to the Badwater Basin in Death Valley, completely off-road, similar idea, water, you know, resupply, but carrying everything else. And so I said, you know what? I let's I think there's a great way we can we can do this. And so we we said, how many calories can we get away with not consuming? Like, let's go light with our food and uh you know, take a meal or two per day and barely any snacks, go super light, no breakfast, and just you know, we know it'll take us X amount of time, and so we can we can run our engines a little bit dry, it'll be lighter. So there was that, and then you know, whittling away at the gear and taking only what we absolutely needed. But and here's the key knowing what we did need, like what was critically important. Like nights were gonna get cold really quick, although it was 45 degrees Celsius in the middle of the sand dunes when we started. As we ascended, we did 23,000 vertical feet in uh 200k, you know, going up and down, but going net up. We started at the ocean at zero, right? And we ended up at like what 13,000, 14,000 feet. At the end of it, those nights are a lot cooler. So we had to bring with us, we brought minus seven down bags with us. Normally we'd take a zero bag, but the bodies were gonna be wasted by the time we get to these higher altitudes. And so experience taught us well, don't just reach for the super lightest, go slightly warmer, pay the weight penalty there, but we'll cut on other areas that we know we can sacrifice. Like basically wearing what I start with. That's it. Like, I'm not bringing the only other clothes I'm bringing is something warm, you know? And so you get the picture. Like, and that's how we stayed super light. In the video you're talking about, that's not absolutely everything that was in my pack, but it's pretty close. But you see the finished product. If you watch the reel after that one, when we're in the desert, you can see the size of my pack. It's not big for six days, you know?

Larry 38:08

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and and I'm guessing by now, um, you probably also have some some good sponsors that are supplying you with some of this equipment.

Ray Zahab 38:19

Well, yeah, I I work with some really great partners um on all of my expeditions with also with Impossible to Possible. Canada Goose, I've been working and collaborating with Canada Goose since gosh, 2008. Um, and they helped me with all of my gear. I had some an amazing, some amazing gear from Canada Goose with me along on that on the journey. As a matter of fact, if people go back in the videos on my Instagram and your listeners and they're they're looking at some of the videos from Kevin and I's expedition across Ellesmere last winter, those windsuits were custom made by the geniuses of Canada Goose for those temperatures and the environment that we were going to be in. So it's it's really, really cool collaborations. So Canada Goose, and then of course, Norda with my running shoes, you know, and I've got the RZ Norda. Um, you know, uh again, the shoes are super lightweight, bomb proof, super grippy. I mean, right? Cthulo with my gators, Osprey backpacks with the pack, uh, exact nutrition. I mean, you know, the list goes on. So you're it's over the years. I'm fortunate, Larry, that I've been at this a really long time. And the people in the industry that support what I do are my friends. And I believe in the products. That's why I'm there. You know what I mean?

Larry 39:44

Oh, yeah.

Ray Zahab 39:45

And so um the trust that you have in the gear in doing these things is critical because, you know, like for example, the west to east uh across the Atacama, you can't have mistakes out there. I mean, it it's full on, dude. It was full on. At some points, I thought, oh, this is we're at the edge. We're, you know, because it's so hot and the human body can only take so much, you know. And same

Gear, Sponsors, And Going Light

Ray Zahab 40:10

thing on Ellesmere when Kevin and I, 28 days, 28 days. 31 wolves walked to our camp over the course of 28 days. There were polar bear tracks everywhere. I mean, you have to fully prepare for absolutely everything that's out there. Yeah, and so you gotta trust 100% the gear that you're using.

Larry 40:29

Are are you carrying a gun on any of those expeditions? Oh, yeah, of course. Protect yourself from the game.

Ray Zahab 40:34

You have layers of contingency, layers when you're on an Arctic expedition.

Larry 40:38

So we will pick up the polar bear and wolf story and exactly how they guard themselves against these intrusions in just a minute. But first, I want to share a quick clip from the next episode coming out on July the 3rd. In this episode, I am speaking with Ohana member Ted Lomaika, who did the Triple Maui Nui endurance swim this past February in Hawaii. In this clip, he is setting up how the swim started in the middle of a storm.

Ted Lomicka 41:12

Um, because I had, you know, I can only full weeks off uh from my work to go to Hawaii, and that gave me 10 days to swim. And I left it up to the crew to pick the best day. Well, I call this the calm between the storms because of that 10-day window, there was only a two-day window, really a 24-hour segment where the this the trade winds calmed down to the point that it looked even swimmable by humans. Um, yeah, and so when the rain happened, I didn't really bat an eye because I realized I trust my crew so much that even the fact that we're now in the midst of a thunderstorm, this is still my best opportunity to finish the swim. And they told us, they were really frank with us. Captain Andy Choca, he said to us, he said, We're watching the lightning. If the lightning comes within five miles of where we are right now and strikes the water, the swim is over. There's no questions asked. And I said, You're absolutely right, safety first, we totally get it. He said, Good. Now that you've heard that, as it stands right now, the lightning is actually parting where we are and it's all around us, but it's really nowhere near us. And so there was one bolt that struck from the lead of the storm, and it struck within six miles of where we were swimming.

Larry 42:31

That's a crazy start to uh a crazy swim. The Triple Maui Nui is a very technical, non-stop three-channel swim in Hawaii. You will hear all about how that adventure went, as well as some of the other interesting events he has taken part in. That's all in the next episode of the podcast. Now, let's hear how Ray and his companions protect themselves from polar bear attacks. I'm sure that is something we can all relate to.

Ray Zahab 43:01

To paint the picture for you, when you roll into camp on an Arctic expedition, this is just the two of us. Nobody's setting up camp that's in our sleds. So we right away go to work because it's minus 50, minus 60 with the wind, minus 40 air temperature, very cold. You can't stop. So we roll in and we immediately start unpacking our sleds. While we get the tent screwed into the ice, if we're on open sea ice, we'll talk about open sea ice because on land it's a different setup. Open sea ice, the reason it's different is because there's polar bears out there. So the first thing that happens is we get our tent pegged down and then we get the setup, and then I immediately start shoveling snow around the tent to bury the tent in for the winds that'll kick up at night. Kevin is out setting up the polar bear fence. And what the polar bear fence is is this custom fence where we take in two ski poles and cut the tops off, you know, the the Bottoms are intact and attached to a sharpened stake, and then attached to the sides of the steeples are shotgun blanks, cartridges. Like it's a it's like a almost like a lever that will fire off the blank. Okay. Then there's fishing line between four of these that goes all the way around the perimeter of our campsite. So if a polar bear crosses that it goes off and it will at night will wake up and then we'll be ready with our firearms. Our firearms, we have two. We have a rifle, 300 wind mag, and we have a 12-gauge shotgun. The shotgun is in the tent with us, and um the rifle is positioned in the vestibule. So if anything should happen, and there was a polar bear comes charging across that vents, rips into the tent, and then the tent is a like a messed bag, and then we can't find the shotgun. You get out of the tent, you get into the vestibule, and now you've got the rifle. So, you know, you're thinking of all these things. And these are there's other pieces that I'm leaving out for time, yeah. But the whole process is thought out, and it has to be exactly the same with the same tasks completed in the same order every night for 28 days.

Larry 45:14

Yeah, that's that's that's amazing. And and hopefully you've never actually had the the polar bear experience.

Ray Zahab 45:22

No, I've seen polar bears out there, see, and the the wool the wolves are no, no, no polar bear attacks. No, like knock on it. I'm knocking on wood heavily here. That's the last thing. A polar bear, when you see them out there in the Arctic, they're beautiful creatures, but you know, they're the size of a minivan. They're huge. Yeah, they're massive, you know. Yeah, so like you don't want to mess with that.

Larry 45:40

No, no. Well, if if we can just go back to that um latest expedition of yours, um you didn't quite finish where you wanted it to finish, I believe. Uh, can you tell us a little bit about how the how the exhibition finished off for you?

Ray Zahab 45:54

Yeah, it's interesting. So phase one of the expedition was well, there were two expeditions. Because they were so vastly different the way we were doing them, we said, okay, well, let's make it two separate trips. Where if trip number one ends, trip number two begins. And trip number two was hiking from that point supported. So we still had the same backpacks, but we didn't have to worry about our food and carrying all of our gear and all that super light backpacks, and we would go another 80 kilometers to Ojo de Salado, the highest volcano on the planet. And with our other buddies from Chile, the four of us would climb the volcano together. But when we arrived there and we were, you know, totally stoked to get to High Camp, which was at 17,000 feet, so very close to the summit, um, my teammate Stefano ended up getting altitude sickness. And so uh we realized, I mean, look at it. It's just the desert crossing was so epic. We were so stoked that for us, and we were talking about it the day before heading to the summit, and Stefano was incredibly experienced in the mountains. I mean, it just goes to show you if anybody should have came off that mountain with altitude sickness, it should have been me, because I'm the guy that had blood cancer. But whatever, it's just the way it was, as luck would have it, and we're going up the mountain. He's throwing up every five seconds, and we're going up this, you know, you know, this volcano that normally people four-wheel drive up to 17,000, we're we're hiking the 21k up, and he's as sick as a dog. And I'm talking about it, I'm like, what the hell are we doing? Like, honestly, we've had such an incredible trip. We've we've truly had an amazing adventure. Um, do we really need um, you know, do you really need to kill yourself trying to do this thing? Right. And so, uh, and that was abundantly clear at 17,000. I think we were at 17.1 or 17.2, like it wasn't safe. Like, you know, he we so we went back down. So that's the way it goes. So, you know, you you uh it did did it it did it end the way we wanted it to? No. But was I super bummed about it? No, not at all. You know, because it would the adventure had I wrote a post about this. This was one of those adventures that had everything. We had success on the first expedition. Uh, we were actually ahead of schedule on the first expedition by like five or six hours. Um we you mentioned the the video I posted about the the Polish climbers. We ended up helping this group of climbers because we randomly had our camp on the way to this volcano in a place

Polar Bear Fences And Camp Routine

Ray Zahab 48:30

that people would just drive right past with their four-wheel drives. We were camped there, nobody ever camps. We're in the middle of nowhere. And if people want to hear the full story, go to my Instagram because I won't tell the whole story here right now because it'll just take up too much time. But go and check it out.

Larry 48:43

Please give us give us the gist of this, though.

Ray Zahab 48:44

This is just one of those right place, right time. Yeah, these people randomly they were camped, they were gonna climb the same volcano. Hundreds of people climb this volcano that we were going up every year. And so they were they were camped at a different camp acclimatizing 30k away. There's nothing between us and that camp. There's not 30k behind us, there's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing around, just mountains. They all look the same. And we're walking the entire way, trekking to this volcano. So, you know, we had to set camp at some points. We set camp in this spot. And, you know, at night, this climber, this person comes out of the mountains with a headlamp on and she comes stumbling into camp and she's frozen and a little bit of altitude sickness and doesn't know where her four teammates are. And luckily, because we're there, you know, randomly camped in this. We weren't doing this expedition. You know, these people could have died. As a matter of fact, one of my buddies, buddies, Ismail, who was out there with us, like is a legendary climber, mountaineer, does search and rescue operations all the time, um, sadly has to go and find and uh uh you know, and reco uh pick up the bodies, find the bodies of people that get into avalanches and stuff. I mean, they it's just this guy knows the mountains. And he said to us after they round, they they went and found everybody and all that jazz. Again, like I said, longer story that you gotta see on the you can hear on my Instagram page. Um, he said they would have died. If we ran, if we weren't there out camped randomly, like if these people like they just picked them out in the climb, they drove 30k in the morning, I guess, of that day, and just said, well, let's go climb that mountain. And off they ran into the mountain. And then randomly, we show up in the afternoon at some point and said, camp not too far from that mountain. And these people, you know, so if it wasn't for that, it's because these people, exposure and altitude. What a couple of them were really sick, and he said they wouldn't have made it to the night because there's nowhere to go, like they lost their vehicle, they couldn't find anything. Yeah, so that happened too. So the whole thing, it was a full adventure, let me tell you, you know, was it as it like Ellesmere Island last winter, where you know, six days by snow machine just to get to the start point, and then 28 days on skis crossing the furthest landmass, if not the furthest landmass north, one of the furthest land masses north in in the world, for sure in North America, you know, that was just a crazy epic expedition last year. But this ex and it was a success, but this expedition had everything too, right? It had success, failure, uh this crazy rescue. I mean, everything.

Larry 51:44

Yeah. So when when you're in these uh situations, like you like you got to like you're so near the top, but you know things are getting worse. How do you know the difference between this is discomfort, this is normal suffering, and this is we gotta respect this and come back down?

Ray Zahab 52:04

Because I know my teammate, I know Stefano, and then he's like one of the toughest guys on the planet. Like we've done crazy expeditions together. Like the thing we did in Namibia crossing that desert, uh, the way we had to push our bodies to get across that desert in the middle of summer, again, almost 2,000 kilometers from South Africa to Angola, or crossing Kamchatka, you know, you just know. You know when you know. And we've been at this long enough. And you know when you know, and you're experienced, and we've been doing this for so long that, and I like out of the 40, let's say, 45 expeditions I've done, I've had five go sideways, right? But when they go sideways and you have to make a hard call, I've always been confident in that call. I've never been like, and I've never been bummed about the call. Because you know you've given it everything. And I saw him do things physically. You can read a post about that too. I saw him do things physically on that last day that I just I couldn't believe he was able to push his body to do. And I mean, it's a guy who's a technical climber. He understood he's a technical mountaineer and he's going up a gentle slope and suffering, right? Like, yeah.

Larry 53:15

Well, I I think that the story of your you know being in the right place at the right time um is gotta be like one of the one of the best as far as because you're so remote and people aren't, you know, crossing paths that often in these things. Um, but what would be another superlative in your adventures where you mostly where you had a mostly unexpectedly beautiful moment, maybe? Like that's that's a great moment.

Ray Zahab 53:43

Like maybe a beautiful moment. Well, you know, it that's a great question. You referenced my books earlier,

Atacama Plans Change Near The Summit

Ray Zahab 53:50

and I completely forgot that I even wrote those because I don't even have a copy of them. They're so old. And um, I'm working on another book right now, which is almost the exact answer to this question right now, which is, you know, those amazing things that have happened, or those crazy things or dangerous things or scary things, there are just so many experiences that I've had under all categories throughout my adventure career. Yeah, they're showing the books on the thing right now. Now, the funny thing is, is those books don't even touch on most of my expeditions. Uh, the book that Steve wrote, and I worked on it with him, um, was written for a youth audience, and um, it's in a lot of school libraries and stuff like that. But it just touches, I think, on Atacama expedition and maybe one or two others. It doesn't really go into it. So that's why I wanted to write something that covers, like, you know, the these last 45 expeditions. And there's been a lot of amazing things that have happened over time and have experienced a lot of amazing things uh on expeditions. Um seeing incredible wildlife or um having a close call. I broke through ice one time on an Arctic expedition, almost lost my life, but then, you know, got out of this river. I was with Stefano that time too, and I got out of this river and was um, you know, completely refocused on the important things in my life. Like it just, it was, it was a both one of the scariest things that ever happened to me and also one of the most the best things that ever happened to me. So, you know, expeditions, there are just numerous uh stories that I can't wait to share with people about about things that that have randomly happened. I'm trying to think of something really, though, uh, right off the top of my head. And of course, I'm getting over this flu and having a hard time trying to think of anything specific, but in this moment. But I, for example, being in the Sahara Desert and you're in the middle of sand dunes for weeks, weeks and weeks, and looking down and seeing arrowheads in a spot that we happen to randomly saw arrowheads laying all over the place. You're like, where are these from? And they're from 10,000 years ago, right? They're like, you know, so the randomness on expeditions, um, that things like that that just blow your mind uh is one of the things that's always excited me about doing these trips, right?

Larry 56:22

Well, well, you mentioned that that one book is for a youth audience and and is in a lot of libraries. When when did you take your adventures to the idea of I want to put those toward youth as well? And when did you feel that personal challenge turn into a responsibility to try and bring this to youth and and the co-founding of your impossible to possible?

Ray Zahab 56:44

Well, you know what? So all of my expeditions always uh have been connected in one way or another. I've had a youth audience following the expeditions that I do. You know, we used to build individual websites for each of my expeditions, and then now nobody really uses websites anymore. They use social media. So, you know, post now on social media, and you know, the there's a lot of teachers that take that content and then we'll show it in schools and stuff. But um 2008, my wife and I and my buddy Bob Cox in uh my best friend in California decided that we wanted to create something with the help of friends. We created the organization Impossible to Possible with the goal of bringing young people on expeditions and giving them the opportunity to do the things that I do, but it's their expedition, right? So they're the ones out there doing, you know, trekking through a jungle or hiking uh through sand dunes and, you know, or running across a salt flat. And their expedition becomes an opportunity for a learning, uh, you know, a learning component to happen. So uh youth expedition in Utah, we ran across the grand staircase, partnered with the University of Utah, and told the story of the rise of the dinosaurs. And so our youth ambassadors would uh, you know, run to a camp where paleontologists were digging dinosaur bones, and then they would carry on running the next day, and that would be live streamed into classrooms. And it was just, you know, or or um even more simple, uh two, was it two years ago or a year ago, we did Mojave Desert, and our youth team was studying extreme weather. And so we had uh senior climatologists from the Weather Network with us, and they were explaining the changes that our youth ambassadors were experiencing as they went high in altitude, crossing these this mountain range in Death Valley and then descending down into the desert floor and all the different plants that exist at these different altitudes and whatnot. And so creating content around that. And then we did an extension of that in the Atacama Desert as well. So we're always trying to reinvent and uh how we do the impossible possible youth expeditions, but it's always been free. I mean, the common denominators doesn't matter where you come from, uh, as long as you're between 16 and 21 years of age, you get selected to go. Uh, depends on how big the group is. Each youth expedition is different, but between three and five typically. And um, yeah, everything's 100% free. You get picked, you apply, you get picked, and you go.

Larry 59:18

Yeah. And I saw each of them basically has a different theme as well.

Ray Zahab 59:22

Yeah, every time it's a different learning component.

Larry 59:25

Yeah.

Ray Zahab 59:25

Um, you know, the last couple and in the next one, the uh well, the educational component in the next one is going to be more robust, but the last couple have been more adventure-based. So it's more like, okay, this latest youth expedition, we did a different

Rescue By Being In The Right Place

Ray Zahab 59:40

region in the Atacama Desert. And it was, it was uh really interesting content. They told the, and it was done simultaneously with a Capac 1 expedition. So you had people out there who were on an adult expedition. They paid to go on an expedition, and then simultaneously, separate camp but similar route, some of the days were different. Our youth expedition was doing an adventure. And what you had was youth who are 16 years old interviewing adults who are 50 years old, and they're kind of doing the same thing. And the topic was called life of adventure. And it's how do you maintain adventure as you get older? You know, is it something that you can maintain throughout your entire life? And of course, we know the answer is yes, but you know, you share that through videos and storytelling.

Larry 1:00:28

Yeah. And and like you said, uh, so much of it now is probably just social media.

Ray Zahab 1:00:34

Um that was 100% social media this time. Yeah, 100%. We only posted on you know, three, four posts too. You can't do too many. Yeah, you can't do too many posts because people then just get turned off from it, right? You got it just enough, then hopefully everybody's excited and that's it, you know?

Larry 1:00:48

Yeah. Well, like I'm a teacher as well. That my day job, I'm a PE teacher. Um, so I'm dealing with these high school youths all the time. Um, and I kind of have an answer for this next question, but in your opinion, in the work that you do with the youth, what do you feel that young people need to hear most right now?

Ray Zahab 1:01:08

Need to hear, well, you know, and it's we live in a different time. I don't know how old you are, Larry, but I'm a lot older than you. And we live, I lived in a time when there was, as I mentioned before, no technology.

Larry 1:01:21

Not a lot older than me.

Ray Zahab 1:01:23

There's there was no technology, right? And so it was a more it was an immersive experience. Living was an immersive experience in a different way. And so, regardless of where uh we come from and and and uh our economic backgrounds and everything else, I think just going outside and turning off devices, you know, and becoming reconnected to the world around us, whether it's an urban environment or it's um, you know, in the countryside or wherever you are, it's it's becoming more in tune with your surroundings in a real way. I'm not saying throw your phone in the garbage. What I'm saying is, you know, disconnect from technology now and then. And I think there's more of a movement to this, and this is starting to happen, and reconnect instead with the 3D world around you and what's happening around you. You can have both. Like I've lived on both sides. I'm on my phone all the time. But I also take time to leave the phone behind and just do other things, right? And feel other things and experience other things. So that's that's one thing. The other thing I try to remind young people is I'm in, I'm always blown away. And I have teenagers, I have an 18-year-old and a 15-year-old, or going on 18 and a 15-year-old. And I am blown away at what they're able to accomplish and do at their age, because I was an absolute train wreck. I mean, I was barely grabbed, barely crawled out of high school. I mean, you know, uh, did not complete community college. And, you know, seeing what young people do now and achieve now at such a young age, it's almost like this bar moved. And I don't know if it's expectations or what it is, but you know, I think a huge thing still for young people is I try to tell them before you get like 20 years old and you're running a company, we're like, you know, I mean, like your life is so fast forward. Like, you got to take time to travel. Traveling is a huge thing, and it takes money to travel. You can do it on a budget, there's ways to do it. But movement, getting around, meeting people, engaging with the world around you, I think is super important.

Larry 1:03:47

Yeah. Well, you're talking about your own daughters and how

Impossible To Possible And Youth Expeditions

Larry 1:03:50

they're, you know, doing these things. I I'm sure that you and your wife, was it Kathy? Um, I'm sure it's your it's yours what you show them that is helping them to do that. Um, do they follow in your footsteps at all? Are they are they runners? Are they adventurers?

Ray Zahab 1:04:07

They're they're runners, but they're, you know, uh they're they're also very involved in their own sports. My youngest is in biathlon uh and Nordic skiing, racing, and they um the youngest also is a sprint canoeer, a trail runner, all this stuff. My oldest is very focused on sprint kayak. Uh, that's her sport. And so, you know, and then but we do family trips together where we do adventures together and stuff. We always have since they were young. But, you know, for us, uh, you know, uh for Kathy and I, it's a priority for us that they're doing the things that they're passionate about, that they love.

Larry 1:04:45

Yeah.

Ray Zahab 1:04:45

And so, you know, for us, our investment in life has not been, you know, maybe like we've forgotten foregone, what's the word? We didn't buy that thing or we didn't buy this thing. We could use a new stove, definitely, because ours cuts out all the time. Or, you know, our bathrooms, one of them doesn't work, but we take that money and instead invest it in the activities that they're doing that they're passionate about. I want to go to a ski race in Ramouski. Okay, well, that takes money, you know? And so you gotta let some things go. And then, you know, our house is getting a little beat up, but our kids are rich with experiences instead, right? So it's like it's just figuring out every family's different and what your priorities are, but you know, we we want them to be um you know, uh pursuing the things that they love.

Larry 1:05:39

Yeah.

unknown 1:05:40

Yeah.

Larry 1:05:41

I think that's what everybody wants for their children. Yeah. Do do your children uh think of what you do as extraordinary, or is it normalized for them because you just do it?

Ray Zahab 1:05:51

Dude, I may as well work at a box factory. They don't care. I mean, it makes literally like sometimes I have to say, like, you know, I was going to the Atacama the on This last trip, and my old star is like, Where are you going? Like I they had no idea where I was even going. Like, I literally I'm walking out the door with my bags, you know. So I, you know, that's it, it it's an interesting thing. But if you were to visit my house, you'd see that there's no uh penis world records on the walls or images of my expeditions. There's literally nothing on display in this house that reflects what it is that I do for a living. Um instead, we celebrate their successes, the things that they're doing. Because that's, you know, that I again, it's just that that's that's our priority in our household. Every household is different, the things that you do, you know. Kevin, my buddy Kevin, uh, that I mentioned that we, you know, that we did this big expedition together on Ellesmere last year, you know, with his kids and his wife, they do these well, now they're, you know, in college and university and doing their things now. But when they were younger, um, he'd have those kids in canoe going up the Mackenzie River and and have done epic trips with them, right? And similar philosophy. They're like, you know, uh, gonna let the floors go because we're gonna go and do this thing instead, you know? And it's just but everybody, you know, it like you make your choices on on what it is you're gonna do. And so in our house, we talk more about what they're doing and not, and my my wife is an amazing ultra runner. She was second at the Tahoe, no, sorry, at Moab 240 one year. You know, she plays second, and and so it's a great runner, but you know, again, like it's the buckles aren't on display, you know. Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that we've made the and that and I celebrate people that do do that. It's just in this household, we decided that we wanted to put their things uh uh forward first. And it's just for uh like our family. That's and there's no right or wrong, you know, it's just that's what we wanted to do. So what they and so as far as they're concerned since they were little, I've been off doing these things, and it's just like, oh, okay, you know, whatever.

Larry 1:08:05

That's what dad does.

Ray Zahab 1:08:06

Yeah.

Larry 1:08:07

When when you return from an expedition,

What Young People Need Most

Larry 1:08:10

um how hard is it to get back into normal family life? And what part of you wishes you were still out on an expedition?

Ray Zahab 1:08:18

No, 100%. I'm when I open the door and I close the door, I'm back in a normal family life. 100%. No, don't think a moment about being back on anything. It's like yeah, door closes, and now I'm in like I it's I it's this thing I've been able to psychologically do and focus and and create this alter ego that I go on this expedition, and then when I get back, it feels like I've been gone two days.

Larry 1:08:45

Oh, yeah.

Ray Zahab 1:08:46

Yeah.

Larry 1:08:48

Well, what what is in the future for expeditions? Do you have uh some of the things? No, I never say where I'm going. I never say where I'm going.

Ray Zahab 1:08:54

Yeah, because I'm superstitious that way. But I'm working on a couple of things, uh, projects that are um adventurous, but also there's um some really cool side stories. It's more about the story than the adventure, um, things that I've been researching. So more about that soon.

Larry 1:09:11

Excellent.

Ray Zahab 1:09:12

And uh by the way, for your listeners who have, and for you with your students, what age? It's high school? High school, yeah. Yeah. So um we do have another youth expedition coming up. I think the youth ambassadors have been selected already for this year, but you know, to stay stay tuned to social media to our to my account, you'll see it and go I2P. The I2P1 is dormant unless we're on a youth expedition or putting out a you know, a call to action, and it'll be very brief. And we're like, here's the application. Better apply because you haven't got much time to do it. And so, you know, stay tuned. And uh, I always make a post on my page when we're gonna do it and or on my Instagram stories, and then it'll disappear. So you gotta pay. But we'll be uh taking applications again, I think, in the summer for the following youth expedition.

Larry 1:10:03

Okay, and I'll make sure I put all my links into the show notes for you as well for all the different things that you're doing.

unknown 1:10:09

Yeah.

Ray Zahab 1:10:09

Perfect. Thank you.

Larry 1:10:11

Well, let me ask you one last question. Um, when you reach the end of your adventuring, which maybe is upon your death because you're gonna keep going. But when you reach the end of this, what do you hope your your legacy is and what do you hope people are gonna say about what your expedition stood for?

Ray Zahab 1:10:28

Uh, you know what? I I never think about that because then you are, then you are uh for for me, then I would be, I'm speaking for myself, then I would be, I don't want to see uh polluting the waters, but I would be maybe creating something in there that I don't want to create. You know what I mean? I'm just doing it, I'm just doing what I do. That's it. And uh I'm in this moment, uh doing the best I can, and uh and that's it, you know. Like it's there's nothing, it's not, it's not the there's nothing crazy and great. It's just this is what I do, and I love what I do. And so um for me, it's making an impact now. Uh, there are so many young adventurers that I talk to almost on a daily basis that will ask for advice. And it could be a training advice, it could be advice on how to do this, that, or the other for an expedition. And when they have success, it makes me so happy. And so the joy I get from that, and you know this as a as a PE teacher, when you see your students excel at something or learn a new skill, it's very gratifying. And that's

Legacy, Mentorship, And Closing

Ray Zahab 1:11:45

not something you can do when you're dead. So I'd rather be, you know, any legacy type stuff, I'd rather spend those coins now on uh helping people, mentoring people, getting people, you know, making them stoked, you know?

Larry 1:12:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, I I think probably with the the stories you've told today, we've we've hopefully inspired some more people to to reach out and go for some bigger things. The the people of this audience, you know, they they do some big things, but uh they're always looking for something new, a new adventure. Um, I'm I'm sure we've inspired some of them and and maybe they can share this with their kids. And we'll make sure to put all those links in the into the show notes so that they can start following you and and make sure that uh the youth adventures are available to them as well. So thanks so much for coming and sharing your perspective about all of these uh fantastic adventures that you do. And I look forward to the next book where you're gonna tell some of these stories. And uh I really appreciate you taking the time to to speak to our audience.

Ray Zahab 1:12:47

Well, thank you so much. And then it was an honor to be on here and uh to be on the show that that Ferg Hawk, the legend, was on. I mean, yeah. And for your listeners that don't know him, you gotta go look this guy up because he is absolutely incredible. Yeah.

Larry 1:13:01

Yeah, he he's back in uh I believe season two, so you can go look that one up. Go look it up. All right. Well, thanks again, Ray. All right, we'll catch you soon. Thank you.